Talking grace, faith and life on the edges with best-selling author, ‘unconventional’ pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber - cleveland.com

DANA POINT, CA - FEBRUARY 07: Nadia Bolz-Weber speaks onstage during The 2019 MAKERS Conference at Monarch Beach Resort on February 7, 2019 in Dana Point, California. She speaks at Case Western Reserve University this week. (Photo by Vivien Killilea/Getty Images for MAKERS)Getty Images for MAKERS

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Nadia Bolz-Weber is an ordained Lutheran minister, founder of House for All Sinners & Saints in Denver, Colorado, creator and host of the podcast “The Confessional” (produced in conjunction with The Moth) and author of three New York Times bestselling memoirs.

She’s often described as “bold, candid, unconventional” – not to mention “refreshingly direct” – and holds a great deal of empathy for those who feel conventional faith doesn’t fit them.

“I was considered a whole lot more unconventional many years ago,” Bolz-Weber told Cleveland.com and The Plain Dealer in an interview last week. “People feeling entirely out of place in a religious or spiritual sense and wanting to talk about that with someone unconventional is not so unconventional anymore.”

Bolz-Weber writes and speaks about “personal failings, recovery, grace, faith” and what it means to “sit in the corner with the other weirdos.” When she’s not connecting to audiences, she works inside the Denver women’s prison where she serves as volunteer chaplain.

She will visit Case Western Reserve University at 4 p.m. this Thursday, November 7, for a talk called “Let There Be Snacks (and Sex and Songs): Finding a Defiant Hope in What Makes Us Most Human.” It’s the fourth lecture in CWRU’s College of Religious Studies free public lecture series, featuring internationally renowned scholars and public intellectuals and made possible by the Henry Luce Foundation.

No doubt she’ll touch on her three bestselling memoirs “Pastrix: The Cranky, Beautiful Faith of a Sinner & Saint” (2013, re-released in 2021); “Accidental Saints: Finding God in All the Wrong People” (2015) and “Shameless: A Sexual Reformation” (2019) as well as modern divinity.

The latter came after a divorce from her husband in 2016 after 20 years of marriage. Describing it as “the friendliest divorce in history,” she wrote about the lack of physical intimacy in her marriage as a major reason for the divorce.

It’s been a mixed-up world for so many lately that when the chance to talk to the famed, foul-mouthed pastor and bestselling author – formerly a stand-up comedian who is currently in recovery – we couldn’t help but jump at it.

Cleveland.com: You’ve spoken a lot about grace, but how do you handle moments when you struggle to offer it to yourself?

Nadia Bolz-Weber: Generally, I have one of the close people in my life notice when I am struggling to offer grace to myself. I don’t necessarily have some amazing self-corrective sense; I just happen to have amazing people who know me well, who will point out that I might be a little harsh [on myself].

And it’s hard, because the thing that gets in the way of offering grace and compassion to myself is pride – because I, on some level, feel I should know better, or I should do better. There was a time I was on the phone with my sister, just telling her something and was really trying to let go of something I was disappointed in myself about. That “I should have known better.”

She said, “Nobody knows better in every situation of their life.” <laughs> I said, “I guess maybe it feels like I should have some humility.” She said, “Oh no, honey. That’s pride.” <laughs>

What’s something about faith or church life that you feel is often misunderstood by outsiders, and how do you wish people would view it differently?

Hmm. I think because we live in such an individualistic culture, people really feel like they must be able to do everything on their own – including life itself. I was on a plane once and somebody asked what I did for a living. I accidentally mentioned I was a pastor – usually I just say I work for a nonprofit or something! <laughs> -- and she said, “Oh, I don’t feel like I need anything outside of myself for comfort, meaning or purpose.”

That really hit me. I desperately need something outside of myself. For me, for comfort and purpose, I feel like if I’m literally all I have, that just feels profoundly limited to me. Sometimes people think having faith is like a crutch or a weakness. To me, it’s a strength because if I don’t have enough compassion, if I don’t have enough forgiveness, I get to tap into a source that’s endless for these things that I might not have all on my own. To me, admitting that feels like strength.

What do you say to those victims who have been harmed by high-control religious institutions? Or are traumatized because of their faith and in recovery from spiritual abuse?

First of all, you’re not alone. A lot of people have had that experience. Second of all, take all the time you need. You don’t ever have to come back. You get to do everything on your own terms and can eventually come back if you feel called to it. But you don’t have to. Don’t let anyone make you feel like you must return to that. There are so many other ways of being Christian than the one that hurt you and if you miss community, there are plenty on offer that differ from the one that hurt you.

Nadia Bolz-Weber attends The 2019 MAKERS Conference at Monarch Beach Resort on February 7, 2019 in Dana Point, California. She will speak at Case Western Reserve University this week. (Photo by Rachel Murray/Getty Images for MAKERS)Getty Images for MAKERS

In a world that’s increasingly divided, how do you maintain compassion for people who seem to oppose your values?

I wish I could stand here and tell you that it’s easy for me. It’s not. I try to remind myself that what I read on the internet does not have to define how I view myself, the world or the other people around me. Meaning that the algorithmic overlords want me to believe horrifying things about people who might have different ideologies than my own. That doesn’t mean that’s who they really are; it just means that’s what gets people to click on links, what sells ad revenue and so on.

I really try to remember that. I think we’ve all been duped the last 10 years into believing the worldview – and the view of ourselves – is somehow defined more by what we read on the internet than by what we experience in our everyday lives.

As someone who speaks openly about both faith and societal issues, how do you approach conversations around politics within your community?

I really don’t speak publicly much about politics, to be honest. It’s just not my lane. A lot of people do. I feel like that’s out there and available almost everywhere for people to take in. I have very small lane that’s mine. That’s why I always talk about grace and compassion and being honest about our feelings, you know? That’s my lane in recovery and I stay in that because I feel like, for whatever reason, God saw fit to entrust me with a particular message. If I start spouting off hot takes about hot topics, people who would normally be willing to listen to me about the message I’ve been entrusted with could be turned off.

How do you see the role of humor in faith, especially when dealing with heavy topics?

I think there’s nothing more deadly than trying to talk about humor! <laughs> It never actually works. I happen to have I have a brain that’s wired to see what’s funny about things and have been that way my whole life. Look, I think the special sauce with almost anything is making every attempt we can to not take ourselves too seriously. I think that’s essential to growth, to openness and to joy. I guess humor goes along with that – being open to the effervescence of the irrational and absurd and to not feel like indulging in that is somehow disrespectful to things that have a lot of gravitas.

How has your understanding of personal identity evolved over the years?

What years? <laughs> It’s ever-changing. Five years ago, I wasn’t a menopausal woman. Five years before that, I wasn’t divorced, and so on. Life happens to us and we adjust – hopefully, sometimes painfully – our self-regard and our idea of who we are when things change.

Look, here’s an example: I used to be edgy, right? I used to be considered edgy, because I had this church that had a drag queen, there were a lot of queer folks and we did, we had a sense of humor about what it meant to be a church and I have tattoos. And that was edgy then.

Now, as a 55-year-old woman, “edgy” has sped so far past me. I can’t even see it! <laughs> I don’t even know what that means anymore. But that’s also kind of important to realize and not end up clinging to. When people try to cling to what’s clearly passed... I just don’t want to end up realizing I’m that person.

Nadia Bolz-Weber will speak at Case Western Reserve University’s Thwing Center, Excelsior Ballroom this Thursday, November 7 at 4 p.m. It is a no-cost, open to the public event that requires registration. Thwing Center is located at 11111 Euclid Ave., Cleveland, OH 44106. Reservations can be made at religion.case.edu.

If you purchase a product or register for an account through a link on our site, we may receive compensation. By using this site, you consent to our User Agreement and agree that your clicks, interactions, and personal information may be collected, recorded, and/or stored by us and social media and other third-party partners in accordance with our Privacy Policy.